Pentium 4 Windows XP V.S Pentium D Windows 7

Discussion in 'Windows XP General Discussion' started by WindowsXPforever, Nov 3, 2018.

  1. WindowsXPforever

    WindowsXPforever

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    So i have 2 computers the Windows XP Pentium 4 with Hyper-Threading enabled and a Windows 7 Pentium D computer.As much i love XP i dont really use my 7 pc.BUT! i compared the computers.The Windows 7 pc is ised by my dad so it only has avast and firefox quantum,ccleaner installed thats all and with all the latest updates.So i started looking at the startup time and they are really different Windows XP with more programs installed and some startup programs (avast and speedfan) boots up FASTER then Windows 7.The Windows 7 pc on another hand boots up slower and having ONLY avast as a startup item.I think XP is more better at startups then 7.I really wished that i used XP for a bit longer.Too bad my dad got a virus on the old xp pc without updates and antivirus and then my whole childhood was being with 7 that was slow as hell :(.Welp atleast im eXPierencing Windows XP since december 21st 2017 :) :) :)
     
    WindowsXPforever, Nov 3, 2018
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  2. WindowsXPforever

    Elizabeth23

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    http://www.blackviper.com/service-configurations/

    you might check out the above site to see what win7 has running at startup that you do not see and maybe you could speed up the startup, even xp has lots of startup services originally, until I disable them or set them to manual, :)
     
    Elizabeth23, Nov 3, 2018
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  3. WindowsXPforever

    cmccaff1

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    Your Pentium D PC should be 100% compatible with XP. Do you know the model name/number? With XP it should run at least on par with the P4HT, though I'd expect it to be quite a bit better.
     
    cmccaff1, Nov 3, 2018
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  4. WindowsXPforever

    WindowsXPforever

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    Its a dell optiplex gx620 with 7 pro preinstalled
     
    WindowsXPforever, Nov 3, 2018
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  5. WindowsXPforever

    cmccaff1

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    Yup--that is 100% XP compatible. In fact, I think those models were originally designed for XP.
     
    cmccaff1, Nov 3, 2018
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  6. WindowsXPforever

    WindowsXPforever

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    I wish to install....but.... thats my dad pc i only use it to store our family photos because why not and my dad really hates xp :(
     
    WindowsXPforever, Nov 3, 2018
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  7. WindowsXPforever

    cmccaff1

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    cmccaff1, Nov 3, 2018
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  8. WindowsXPforever

    Sixthofmay

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    You should not run a P4 or D CPU due to the high amount of electricity used (the P4 or D has no power management). The electricity savings could pay for a used Core2Duo and you would have a much faster PC with the option to run it 24/7. XP or 7, when paired with a Core2Duo/Quad or later CPU only uses as much power it needs at that instant, leading to huge savings in power.

    I haven't had good luck with Dells. I've had 3 and they're all dead now (motherboard failure). For inexpensive reliable PCs, I've been buying used HP Compaq Business class PCs. DC7900 series is my favorite for XP and Windows 7. Search HP DC7900 or HP Windows 7 on eBay. There used to be a bunch of XP boxes, but lately it's mostly Windows 7 or 10 (stay away from 10 even if you find its GUI usable- the spying Windows Updates are removable on 7 but not on 10). The later HP boxes with I3, I5, and I7 CPUs are fine for Windows 7 too (you'll need the newer ones for >8TB drive support).

    I've only had one motherboard failure out of 14 HP boxes (none out of ~100 at my workplace), and considering the average used price- computer, OS, RAM has been $100, they're a bargain. My goto ultra reliable brand is Supermicro, so several of my PCs (including my main XP box) are using that.

    Your boot time difference can be explained by boot commit charge of XP vs. 7. Windows XP and 7 both start paging (writing RAM pages to your pagefile.sys) when commit goes past 1.5GB. XP typically boots with a 300 to 700MB commit (my one Windows 2000 box is 72MB). Windows 7 boot commit is 2 to 3GB, so it's paging while it's booting. If you are running P4 or D CPUs, you most likely have spinning IDE harddisks (there were very few SSDs made with IDE interface), so your 7 box is in paging hell just booting. Paging hell = slowwwww.

    While you can add SATA drives to a P4 or D via a card, it makes no sense when there are inexpensive Core2Duos available, which come with 4 or 5 SATA ports.

    For speeding up any PC- replace your spinning boot drive with a SSD (use Acronis True Image or other imaging software, or reinstall; note some software may deactivate... like Autocad). Run legacy SATA mode for best reliability (there is little or no slowdown with a SSD). If using XP, make sure to align the SSD partition(s) with a tool like Paragon Alignment Tool (if you use Acronis beforehand, don't bother using any of the safety features in Paragon).

    To avoid paging hell:
    If XP:
    If you don't push your machine hard, just putting the pagefile on a different drive than your boot drive works well enough.

    If you push your machine hard (1.5GB or higher commit charge), have only one pagefile.sys and have a dedicated 256 to 512GB SSD just for it.

    If you push your machine hard (1.5GB or higher commit charge), but want no speed penalty, have only one pagefile.sys and put it on a 5GB RAMDisk using unmanaged RAM (you'll need 8GB RAM).

    There are at least two working methods- I use Superspeed RAMDisk on two of my XP boxes that typically have a high commit charge (2 to 4GB). Search pagefile ramdisk neowin. It's not a trivial mod and you will need an Acronis (or other) backup before attempting. There is one other RAMDisk that claims to support a pagefile, but the name escapes me.

    If Windows 7:
    Just booting makes it page. Any other activity will make it page. If running a SSD, you'll not notice slowdows unless the paging is severe (commit near or over physical RAM). I have one Win 7 box in this category, and had to add a dedicated SSD for the pagefile. Doing that cut my SnapRAID sync time to 1/4 what is was (it was nearing the max of 24 hours on some days).

    Just curious, has anyone made a pagefile on RAMDisk work on Windows 7 or 10?
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2018
    Sixthofmay, Nov 22, 2018
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  9. WindowsXPforever

    cmccaff1

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    I wish I'd known about that 'memory management' thing years earlier...I was enjoying using older PCs for the nostalgia factor, but now I have a great reason to stick with the newer models. I migrated back to my HP Pavilion Slimline S5-1020 PC after reading your post here, sixthofmay. It has a Pentium E6800 (which is similar in capabilities to the Core 2 Duo but somewhat stripped-down), 4GB of RAM (XP only sees and uses 3GB RAM, which is more than enough for me), a 320GB HDD, and a DVD+/-RW drive. HP only has drivers on their site for 64-bit Windows 7/8, but thanks to SlimDrivers I was able to get a full suite of drivers for 32-bit XP installed (the motherboard's 100%WinXP compatible). There is still a lot of software which works very well under WinXP after all these years, and the programs I personally like to run are as follows (in a revised [and finalized] list):

    -CCleaner 5.32 (the last version released before Avast acquired Piriform, and as a result unaffected by the issues which have become notorious for plaguing later releases)
    -Defraggler 2.21 (ditto to the above)
    -Disk Cleaner 1.8.1795 (the latest [and likely last] version of this obscure yet incredibly useful program, which covers a few bases that even CCleaner misses)
    -Firefox 28.0 (the last version released before Mozilla switched to Australis; it works great as my main browser, and has no issues connecting to any modern websites)
    -Mypal 28.1.0 (the best modern browser I've used on XP, and great for sites which FF28 is now starting to have problems with; I keep it on hand for Twitter & some other sites)
    -VLC Media Player 2.2.8 (the last in the 2.x series; the 3.x series, in my experiences, doesn't run as well, and the extra compatibility over the 1.x series & earlier is fantastic)
    -Winamp 5.8 (the newest available version of this legendary/iconic media player; while it is technically a leaked beta, the Winamp team has sanctioned it as an official release and encourages people to get it over any older versions--Winamp 6 is currently in the works, but this is the last version I will be using as it keeps the famous thunderbolt logo)
    -MS Office 97 (I see no reason why anyone would need to use a newer version; after 20+ years, this is still the best suite I've used for documents/presentations/spreadsheets)
    -7-Zip 18.05 (the latest version; still compatible with XP, and still perfect for .7z files)
    -WinRAR 5.40 (XP still supports WinRAR with its latest version, but this is the last one I will be using as it's the last version to not have RAR5 as the default for .rar compression [pre-5.x WinRAR versions cannot open or decompress files made with the RAR5 format])

    I am also using the Inexperience Patcher (version 0.7.2, which I believe is the last one unless any unofficial updates/hacks have been released since then; I would be wary of them, though), which replaces many of the built-in XP components with counterparts from Windows 2000/ME/Whistler betas, and have applied a 'Sailor Mercury' theme by Alain Gravel ("is_merc") downloaded from themeworld.com. The theme is dated April 9, 1998. Despite being 20+ years old and designed for Win95 it works flawlessly under XP, the only caveat being that I had to go and disable the maximize/minimize and restore up/down sounds (the rest are fine, but those particular sounds get annoying very fast). XP seems to be the last version of Windows which interfaces properly with these older 9x-era themes and has good compatibility with 9x-era programs without having to apply any hacks or tweaks to get them to run properly; starting with Vista it gets challenging.

    Sorry about such a long message--I guess I had a lot to say! Happy Thanksgiving to all!
     
    cmccaff1, Nov 22, 2018
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  10. WindowsXPforever

    WindowsXPforever

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    Still using my p4 even after reading the posts! :)
     
    WindowsXPforever, Nov 23, 2018
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  11. WindowsXPforever

    cmccaff1

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    Nothing wrong with that! It's not like I threw my P4 out--I've still got it on hand as the next line of defense in case anything goes wrong with the Slimline. I can't let a P4 go to waste!
     
    cmccaff1, Nov 23, 2018
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  12. WindowsXPforever

    Sixthofmay

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    I was happy with Office 4.3 on WFW3.11. Then I used Office 97 for years, and have Office 2003 installed now (retail CD from eBay like $20). No issues with any. I'm forced to use Office 2013 at work. It has some major GUI design issues (I'm not a ribbon person), workarounds are keyboard shortcuts. I read Office 365 is a mess.

    My music jukebox runs on Window 2000 on a P4. Winamp v5.56 plus Izotope Ozone for Winamp (best $30 I ever spent) feeding a M-Audio Delta 1010 (8 balanced consumer or pro level inputs and outputs). That's hooked to a Crown MA-3600vz for powering my speakers- 84dB/watt Magneplaner 3.6R.

    When I bought the speakers I had them hooked to a 100watt/channel amp, and they had no bass or dynamics at any reasonable volume. After researching it on the net, I found I needed A LOT more power and an amp that can handle 2 ohm loads. The Crown came via eBay for 1/4 the cost of new and combined with Ozone, the speakers are now capable of punchy dynamic bass and decent volume without issue. The MA-3600vz does 1800watts/channel on a 30amp circuit- feed it a 60Hz sine wave, turn up the volume, and you can run your vacuum cleaner on it (no I didn't try it, but I read others have). Maybe one day I'll add a sub, but don't need one.

    I looked through the P4's Supermicro manual and apparently it can be jumpered to run at 2.4GHz instead of 3GHz. Besides playing music, I keep the box around for nostalgia and the Windows 2000 help file (decent quick reference for DOS commands).

    I run several versions of Firefox (I have like 50 profiles on the various PCs). Some of the Win7 boxes have the latest Firefox (some sites like Spotify require it) and older versions too. With the profile manager, I have different profiles for each and can run old and new versions at the same time on the same PC. I have Google Chrome too, but only use that when necessary (it's spyware).

    All my legacy Firefox plugins (Classic Theme Restorer, MAFF, Screengrab) still work on the sites I need them to (using FF 52 to 56), but I can see the day coming soon where the sites will not work on the old browsers. There is still no replacement for MAFF (Mozilla Archive Format) that works like it does (ie. perfect webpage save no matter how complex the website).

    I'm looking for an up to date browser like Chrome minus the spyware. It's based on open source Chromium right? Some hardware I want to use needs Chrome to work. Maybe I can fool it with a decent clone. Need to research that some.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2018
    Sixthofmay, Nov 25, 2018
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  13. WindowsXPforever

    cmccaff1

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    I hear you, man. That's quite a lot of trial and error on your part--you really have a vast amount of computing knowledge, and I'm glad that you're willing to share it with others!

    A couple of changes from my earlier list of programs (and now it is definitely finalized barring Mypal updates). I did a fresh installation of XP earlier tonight and reinstalled nearly all the same software, except for three differences: Mypal was updated to version 28.2.1 (a surprise release came on Friday!), Firefox was upgraded from 28.0 to 52.9.1ESR (the final FF version for XP; Centaury/Basilisk still has some bugs and issues that need to be addressed), and I downgraded from VLC 2.2.8 back to 1.1.11 (there were some annoying 'quirks' of VLC 2.x that didn't appear in 1.x, and 1.x runs better while not being too inferior in terms of its compatibility with various file formats). Now it feels like a just-about-perfect setup.

    I have used Chromium 49 (https://github.com/henrypp/chromium/releases/tag/v49.0.2623.112-r403382-win32) under XP (unlike Google Chrome, for which support under XP and Vista ended in April 2016, it continued to get updates on the quiet tip all the way up to October 2016), as well as Advanced Chrome 54 (http://browser.taokaizen.com/ [look for "Custom Build 54.20.6530.0"]), and would recommend both highly to anyone who wants to use Chrome or a derivative under XP. Forget about Google Chrome 49 or Opera 36...they are BOTH junk.
     
    cmccaff1, Nov 25, 2018
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  14. WindowsXPforever

    Mike_Walsh

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    Well, I think that's the first time I've ever heard anyone give the advice that 'you shouldn't use a P4 due to high power consumption'..!

    Damned if I'm throwing mine out. It was an upgrade for my old Dell lappie's original 'Celery-stick', since they both use the same socket. (And before anyone chirps up with 'you can't replace laptop CPUs 'cos they're soldered in', we are here talking about a 16-yr old machine, built before 'mobile' processors were even a gleam in Intel's or AMD's eyes. In those days, laptops used desktop-grade CPUs & sockets...)

    Anybody using a P4 knows all about the stratospheric TDPs they're saddled with. Mine's a 400FSB 2.6 GHz, w/out HT; TDP around 67W. It was chosen, because it was only marginally higher TDP than the 'Celery', @ 62W, and hopefully wouldn't prove too much for the Dell's 'abysmal thermal solution' ( a quote from period reviews of this box, an elderly Inspiron 1100).

    It doesn't get a whole heap of use these days, but it dual-boots a pair of 'Puppies'.....which, I'm sorry to say, knock XP into a cocked hat for sheer speed and responsiveness.. (Mind you, the PATA/IDE KingSpec SSD and 2GB of RAM - up from 128 MB when we bought her back in 2002 - have like as not contributed their bit, too.)

    It runs fine; it's still perfectly functional. And since Puppies are built to keep ancient hardware still fully operational & useful, she'll hopefully keep going for a while longer yet. I don't chuck stuff out until it'll no longer perform the functions it was bought for.


    Mike. ;)
     
    Mike_Walsh, Nov 30, 2018
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  15. WindowsXPforever

    cmccaff1

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    No question about it--these old P4 machines are still surprisingly superb for everyday use (unsurprisingly if you know your stuff when it comes to computers and have enough experience with tweaking/optimizing for the fastest performance you can get out of a system). Yesterday, I got an early Christmas present in the form of an HP ProDesk 600 G1 SFF. It has a fourth-generation (Haswell) Core i5-4690 at 3.5GHz, 8GB of RAM, a DVD drive (not a burner, but that's not a big deal for me as I only burn discs every once in a blue moon, and it's perfectly easy to hook up an external burner if necessary) and a 500GB HDD. Based on research I had done, this is supposed to be one of the newest machines capable of natively running XP, and after some trial/error I got it to boot from the DVD drive and successfully installed Windows XP on it. For anyone who is interested:

    https://downloadcenter.intel.com/do...pset-Device-Software-for-Intel-Desktop-Boards (Chipset)
    https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/22875/Intel-HD-Graphics-driver-for-Windows-XP32-Embedded (Video)
    https://downloadcenter.intel.com/do...vers-for-Microsoft-Embedded-Operating-Systems (Ethernet)

    Though the video/ethernet drivers were designed for embedded systems they work perfectly on the ProBook. The audio was a no-brainer, as Realtek still provides the latest XP-compatible drivers for their High Definition Audio Codec on their website (http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/). My trusty Netgear WN111v2 adapter makes WiFi possible on it, too. The only driver I couldn't get working was the Intel Management Engine Interface. USB 3.0 and AHCI do not work, either, but that is no major setback/disappointment in my book as all the important/essential components ARE up-and-running.

    This is far and away the fastest machine I've ever run XP on, but by no means does that mean I'm going to be throwing out my HP Pavilion Slimline S5-1020 (with a dual-core Pentium E6800 at 3.3GHz) or the old HP Compaq DC5000 SFF and its humble 2.8GHz Prescott P4. They may not be as fast as the i5 (heck, they're nowhere close), but they are still reliable and speedy for my needs. The E6800 uses less power than the i5, and the P4 has legacy ports/features/compatibility which neither of its newer brothers has. Every machine is special in its own way, and can be reliable in a variety of ways. It won't hurt to keep these on hand for when I really need them...it's ridiculous to get rid of a perfectly usable computer.
     
    cmccaff1, Dec 1, 2018
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  16. WindowsXPforever

    EdT

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    I am currently slowly switching over one of my backup Pentium D XP machines to a Windows 7 OS. Wish me luck ! ...LoL
    I still have in my inventory about a half a dozen brand new Intel 775 mainboards and a dozen of Pentium 4 3.6 HT and Pentium D D930 CPUs.
     
    EdT, Dec 3, 2018
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  17. WindowsXPforever

    EdT

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    Yup I couldn't agree more, most of these P4 and Pentium D machines is sufficient even overkill for the majority of the population that just use it for sending email, surfing the web and occasional gaming.
     
    EdT, Dec 3, 2018
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