PC Freezes

I am getting, several times a week, situations when the PC totally freezes
with no input via the mouse or keyboard but with the screen just as it was
before the freeze. Powering down fixes it.
Can anyone advise how to go about identifying and fixing the problem?

"Mervyn Thomas" <mervyn-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:L%pHo.7102$(E-Mail Removed)2...

>I am getting, several times a week, situations when the PC totally freezes
>with no input via the mouse or keyboard but with the screen just as it was
>before the freeze. Powering down fixes it.
> Can anyone advise how to go about identifying and fixing the problem?

Power Supply Unit is one likely cause: easily tested and cheaply
replaced at computer repair stores.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

On 11/25/2010 03:30 AM, Mervyn Thomas wrote:
> I am getting, several times a week, situations when the PC totally freezes
> with no input via the mouse or keyboard but with the screen just as it was
> before the freeze. Powering down fixes it.
> Can anyone advise how to go about identifying and fixing the problem?
>
>


Check to make *all* cooling fans are clean and running smoothly

If the cooling fans are OK run a RAM test

Mervyn Thomas wrote:
> I am getting, several times a week, situations when the PC totally freezes
> with no input via the mouse or keyboard but with the screen just as it was
> before the freeze. Powering down fixes it.
> Can anyone advise how to go about identifying and fixing the problem?
>

There is one other test that remains to be done.

It is possible, for a computer to have a "GUI failure". That
means the display, keyboard, and mouse could suddenly be ignored
by the OS. If all of that, funnels through one piece of software
in the OS, it means the screen might stop updating, if that
piece of software dies for some reason.

If you have a second computer, and you know the range of IP
addresses being used by your computers, you can use the
second computer to do a "ping test". That sends a test packet
to the frozen computer, and it would send a packet back
in response. It's part of the ICMP protocol on the Internet.

Say, for example, my router has DHCP, and serves local unrouted
addresses when the computers boot, in the 192.168.100.1 to 192.168.100.4
range. The second computer happens to be 192.168.100.3 at the
moment. (Go to command prompt, and type "ipconfig", to determine
the current value of the IP address of the second computer.)
You might not know, what the IP address of the frozen computer
is, but if DHCP is range limited to a few IP addresses, you
might guess at the address being used. Then, with the second
computer, try pinging the frozen one. I'm using three
separate tests here, to try and find the frozen computer.
If your computer had a static address which you knew, then
you'd only need one test line like this.

ping 192.168.100.1
ping 102.168.100.2
ping 102.168.100.4

If you get a response from the first computer, at one of those
addresses, it tells you just the GUI is frozen, and the OS
is not completely dead.

The distinction is important, in terms of your debugging process.
If the frozen computer did not respond to any ping command, then
it is likely a CPU freeze. If the frozen computer was able to
respond to an Ethernet ping, then it could be the video card
is the problem. Possible solutions might be uninstalling the
video driver, and installing another.

You can also use differential analysis, to shed light on the problem.
Boot another OS (a Linux LiveCD), and see whether the computer will
freeze there or not. If the computer doesn't freeze in Linux, but
does freeze in Windows, it could be the Windows OS install which
is damaged in some way.

I had a computer once, that froze in both Windows and in Linux,
and based on that, I could conclude it was a hardware problem.
(As it turns out, an actual design flaw in the motherboard.)

You can run memtest86+ to test the memory. You can run Prime95
(mersenne.org/freesoft) in either Windows or Linux, as a stress
test that checks correctness of computation. That tests CPU,
Northbridge, and memory.

As some of the other respondents have pointed out, instability
can be caused by bad capacitors on the motherboard, in the
Vcore area. Certain recent Dell computers suffered from that,
and other brands to different extents. Bad capacitors can
also exist inside the power supply. (I have a second Antec
power supply, that appears to be failing - I haven't opened it
up yet, but I can smell something.) So it could be a motherboard
problem, or a power supply problem. CPUs are generally pretty
good, in terms of not failing while in service. RAM less
so (I've had lots of RAM go bad here, relatively speaking,
compared to CPUs with zero failures - the RAM fails while
in service, which is ridiculous).

Depending on your funding, you can rush out and start
replacing things. Or you can spend a bit more time
testing, to isolate to what you think is the area of
the failure. It all depends on how much money you
have to throw around, as to what you do next.

There is no guarantee, that an OS log file has an entry in
it, corresponding to the time of failure. If you were
getting a real CPU freeze for some reason, the OS doesn't
always have an opportunity to record an event. So you
may not have anything to go on, in that respect. So while
you could check Event Viewer, look for memory dump files or
the like, that's not likely to be an option for you. If it
was just a GUI failure, then some event might be recorded
(where the OS can't do something to the display etc).

You may also want to run CHKDSK, to verify the file system
is OK. You can run CHKDSK, just to see whether there are
any structural errors. That can happen from all the
freezing, without cleanly shutting down the file system.
And also make sure your backups, are up to date.
Just in case.

Paul

On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 09:30:59 +0000, Mervyn Thomas wrote:

> I am getting, several times a week, situations when the PC totally
> freezes with no input via the mouse or keyboard but with the screen just
> as it was before the freeze. Powering down fixes it. Can anyone advise
> how to go about identifying and fixing the problem?

It could caused by a runaway process. Such an errant process hogs the
CPU preventing it from updating the system, keyboard, mouse, etc. in a
timely manner, and thus gives the appearance that the computer is frozen
or locked up.

What applications are you running and what are doing when the "freeze"
happens? Does the freeze occur under the same circumstances? What other
tasks are running in the background?

Try running the Task Manager (ctrl-alt-del to access it). Place it on
the desktop so that it is visible at all times. When the freeze occurs,
check it to see if any process or task is using 100% of the CPU's time.
Give it time to update. If the cause is a runaway process, it may take
several seconds to minutes to update.

Stef

Stephan - I like your reply because it's something I can do readily. I
think the freeze always occurs just after a coming back from hibernation as
I am looking through emails in outlook with nothing else running though
indexing might still be running- I will see!
Thanks
Mervyn
"Stefan Patric" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:icmeqp$uld$(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 09:30:59 +0000, Mervyn Thomas wrote:
>
>> I am getting, several times a week, situations when the PC totally
>> freezes with no input via the mouse or keyboard but with the screen just
>> as it was before the freeze. Powering down fixes it. Can anyone advise
>> how to go about identifying and fixing the problem?
>
> It could caused by a runaway process. Such an errant process hogs the
> CPU preventing it from updating the system, keyboard, mouse, etc. in a
> timely manner, and thus gives the appearance that the computer is frozen
> or locked up.
>
> What applications are you running and what are doing when the "freeze"
> happens? Does the freeze occur under the same circumstances? What other
> tasks are running in the background?
>
> Try running the Task Manager (ctrl-alt-del to access it). Place it on
> the desktop so that it is visible at all times. When the freeze occurs,
> check it to see if any process or task is using 100% of the CPU's time.
> Give it time to update. If the cause is a runaway process, it may take
> several seconds to minutes to update.
>
> Stef
>

A quick note: Turn OFF or remove GoBack while you are trouble-shooting. It
will make starts and restartes go faster.

To Paul: Wouldn't the scenario you mention below here result in the
computer beeping an error code (a pattern of beeps)?
I'm not certain it will, but pretty sure.

OP: Are you getting any beeps when you boot the computer other than possibly
one single beep?

Try turning on the Boot Log to see if there are any boot-time errors that
might make this happen? How many hardware problems does it find?

What is your computer level of expertise? Beginner, user, advanced, expert?
etc.?

HTH,

Twayne`
In news:iclslj$ocf$(E-Mail Removed),
Paul <(E-Mail Removed)> typed:
> Mervyn Thomas wrote:
>> I am getting, several times a week, situations when the PC
>> totally freezes with no input via the mouse or keyboard
>> but with the screen just as it was before the freeze.
>> Powering down fixes it. Can anyone advise how to go about identifying and
>> fixing
>> the problem?
>
> There is one other test that remains to be done.
>
> It is possible, for a computer to have a "GUI failure". That
> means the display, keyboard, and mouse could suddenly be
> ignored by the OS. If all of that, funnels through one piece of
> software in the OS, it means the screen might stop updating, if that
> piece of software dies for some reason.
>
> If you have a second computer, and you know the range of IP
> addresses being used by your computers, you can use the
> second computer to do a "ping test". That sends a test
> packet to the frozen computer, and it would send a packet back
> in response. It's part of the ICMP protocol on the Internet.
>
> Say, for example, my router has DHCP, and serves local
> unrouted addresses when the computers boot, in the
> 192.168.100.1 to 192.168.100.4 range. The second computer
> happens to be 192.168.100.3 at the moment. (Go to command prompt, and type
> "ipconfig", to
> determine the current value of the IP address of the second computer.)
> You might not know, what the IP address of the frozen
> computer is, but if DHCP is range limited to a few IP addresses, you
> might guess at the address being used. Then, with the second
> computer, try pinging the frozen one. I'm using three
> separate tests here, to try and find the frozen computer.
> If your computer had a static address which you knew, then
> you'd only need one test line like this.
>
> ping 192.168.100.1
> ping 102.168.100.2
> ping 102.168.100.4
>
> If you get a response from the first computer, at one of
> those addresses, it tells you just the GUI is frozen, and
> the OS is not completely dead.
>
> The distinction is important, in terms of your debugging
> process. If the frozen computer did not respond to any ping command,
> then it is likely a CPU freeze. If the frozen computer was able
> to respond to an Ethernet ping, then it could be the video card
> is the problem. Possible solutions might be uninstalling the
> video driver, and installing another.
>
> You can also use differential analysis, to shed light on
> the problem. Boot another OS (a Linux LiveCD), and see
> whether the computer will freeze there or not. If the
> computer doesn't freeze in Linux, but does freeze in Windows, it could be
> the Windows OS install
> which is damaged in some way.
>
> I had a computer once, that froze in both Windows and in
> Linux, and based on that, I could conclude it was a hardware
> problem. (As it turns out, an actual design flaw in the
> motherboard.)
> You can run memtest86+ to test the memory. You can run
> Prime95 (mersenne.org/freesoft) in either Windows or Linux,
> as a stress test that checks correctness of computation. That tests CPU,
> Northbridge, and memory.
>
> As some of the other respondents have pointed out,
> instability can be caused by bad capacitors on the motherboard, in the
> Vcore area. Certain recent Dell computers suffered from
> that, and other brands to different extents. Bad capacitors can
> also exist inside the power supply. (I have a second Antec
> power supply, that appears to be failing - I haven't opened
> it up yet, but I can smell something.) So it could be a
> motherboard problem, or a power supply problem. CPUs are
> generally pretty good, in terms of not failing while in service. RAM less
> so (I've had lots of RAM go bad here, relatively speaking,
> compared to CPUs with zero failures - the RAM fails while
> in service, which is ridiculous).
>
> Depending on your funding, you can rush out and start
> replacing things. Or you can spend a bit more time
> testing, to isolate to what you think is the area of
> the failure. It all depends on how much money you
> have to throw around, as to what you do next.
>
> There is no guarantee, that an OS log file has an entry in
> it, corresponding to the time of failure. If you were
> getting a real CPU freeze for some reason, the OS doesn't
> always have an opportunity to record an event. So you
> may not have anything to go on, in that respect. So while
> you could check Event Viewer, look for memory dump files or
> the like, that's not likely to be an option for you. If it
> was just a GUI failure, then some event might be recorded
> (where the OS can't do something to the display etc).
>
> You may also want to run CHKDSK, to verify the file system
> is OK. You can run CHKDSK, just to see whether there are
> any structural errors. That can happen from all the
> freezing, without cleanly shutting down the file system.
> And also make sure your backups, are up to date.
> Just in case.
>
> Paul

Great ideas if he can see them when the problem occurs. +1

HTH,

Twayne`


n news:icmeqp$uld$(E-Mail Removed),
Stefan Patric <(E-Mail Removed)> typed:
> On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 09:30:59 +0000, Mervyn Thomas wrote:
>
>> I am getting, several times a week, situations when the PC
>> totally freezes with no input via the mouse or keyboard
>> but with the screen just as it was before the freeze.
>> Powering down fixes it. Can anyone advise how to go about
>> identifying and fixing the problem?
>
> It could caused by a runaway process. Such an errant
> process hogs the CPU preventing it from updating the
> system, keyboard, mouse, etc. in a timely manner, and thus
> gives the appearance that the computer is frozen or locked
> up.
>
> What applications are you running and what are doing when
> the "freeze" happens? Does the freeze occur under the same
> circumstances? What other tasks are running in the
> background?
>
> Try running the Task Manager (ctrl-alt-del to access it).
> Place it on the desktop so that it is visible at all times.
> When the freeze occurs, check it to see if any process or
> task is using 100% of the CPU's time. Give it time to
> update. If the cause is a runaway process, it may take
> several seconds to minutes to update.
>
> Stef

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 11:13:37 +0000, Mervyn Thomas wrote:

> Stephan - I like your reply because it's something I can do readily. I
> think the freeze always occurs just after a coming back from hibernation
> as I am looking through emails in outlook with nothing else running
> though indexing might still be running- I will see! Thanks
> Mervyn

Okay. I didn't know you were coming out of hibernation. (So, you're
using a notebook computer, not a desktop. Right?) Also, clarify: Is
your system really hibernating or is it suspending? There's a big
difference.

In hibernation, the system is fully shutdown, not powered, but saves the
state of the system to the hard drive, so when it boots, the computer
returns exactly to where you were left off before hibernating. Suspend
(sometimes referred to as sleeping) is similar, but the computer never
fully powers down. Everything running--apps, browser, etc.--are kept in
RAM, and the system runs at minimum power refreshing the RAM, so nothing
is lost. The hard drive, networking, display, etc. are turned off to
save power. Usually, in this state on notebooks, the power light stays
lit, but flashes or changes to a different color to indicate the system
is suspended. With hibernation, the power light is off.

Now, to the point: Hibernation is more problematically than Suspend.
Although, both can cause what you're experiencing. Although, I think
neither is the problem, since the system returns and runs fine for a
while. Also, I don't think you have a runaway process, but continue to
check. It may be a crashed app or process. However, as to what is
causing the problem, I haven't a clue. More troubleshooting is needed.

Check whether you are Suspending or Hibernating. Double check your Power
Management settings to assure everything is set properly. Also, quit
Outlook before hibernating/suspending, and after returning, don't use it
at all to eliminate it as the possible culprit. Do everything else as
you normally would. Does the system still freeze?

Report the results here.

Stef

> "Stefan Patric" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:icmeqp$uld$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 09:30:59 +0000, Mervyn Thomas wrote:
>>
>>> I am getting, several times a week, situations when the PC totally
>>> freezes with no input via the mouse or keyboard but with the screen
>>> just as it was before the freeze. Powering down fixes it. Can anyone
>>> advise how to go about identifying and fixing the problem?
>>
>> It could caused by a runaway process. Such an errant process hogs the
>> CPU preventing it from updating the system, keyboard, mouse, etc. in a
>> timely manner, and thus gives the appearance that the computer is
>> frozen or locked up.
>>
>> What applications are you running and what are doing when the "freeze"
>> happens? Does the freeze occur under the same circumstances? What
>> other tasks are running in the background?
>>
>> Try running the Task Manager (ctrl-alt-del to access it). Place it on
>> the desktop so that it is visible at all times. When the freeze
>> occurs, check it to see if any process or task is using 100% of the
>> CPU's time. Give it time to update. If the cause is a runaway process,
>> it may take several seconds to minutes to update.
>>
>> Stef
>>

On 11/26/2010 6:13 AM, Mervyn Thomas wrote:
> Stephan - I like your reply because it's something I can do readily. I
> think the freeze always occurs just after a coming back from hibernation as
> I am looking through emails in outlook with nothing else running though
> indexing might still be running- I will see!
> Thanks
> Mervyn
> "Stefan Patric"<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:icmeqp$uld$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 09:30:59 +0000, Mervyn Thomas wrote:
>>
>>> I am getting, several times a week, situations when the PC totally
>>> freezes with no input via the mouse or keyboard but with the screen just
>>> as it was before the freeze. Powering down fixes it. Can anyone advise
>>> how to go about identifying and fixing the problem?
>>
>> It could caused by a runaway process. Such an errant process hogs the
>> CPU preventing it from updating the system, keyboard, mouse, etc. in a
>> timely manner, and thus gives the appearance that the computer is frozen
>> or locked up.
>>
>> What applications are you running and what are doing when the "freeze"
>> happens? Does the freeze occur under the same circumstances? What other
>> tasks are running in the background?
>>
>> Try running the Task Manager (ctrl-alt-del to access it). Place it on
>> the desktop so that it is visible at all times. When the freeze occurs,
>> check it to see if any process or task is using 100% of the CPU's time.
>> Give it time to update. If the cause is a runaway process, it may take
>> several seconds to minutes to update.
>>
>> Stef
>>
>
>

If the problem occurs shortly after waking up from hibernation or
suspension, then another possible culprit is the driver for the NIC.
Some NIC drivers did not properly restore themselves from some of
the sleep modes. Check your NIC driver to see if there are options
to leave the NIC alive while the PC sleeps or suspends.
---
Cheers, Bob